The problem with Flippa – Why I say don’t use them
Posted on August 4th, 2010 in Buying Websites, Flipping Websites, selling websites | 18 Comments »
Since Prosperly’s inception, I have been a proponent of Flippa, formerly Sitepoint Marketplace. Flippa is the main website where people go to buy and sell websites. Whenever I have sold websites in the past I have always dealt directly with the buyer and never used Flippa to sell before. I finally decided to try them out to see how it would turn out for me. That is when I realized they have many flaws I couldn’t overlook.
Before I go into those flaws let me just report that I did reach an agreement on a purchase price for the site only to have to deal fall through over the next several weeks.
1. Buyers on Flippa expect to get a steal on a website. The seemingly going rate on the site is 10 months of net revenue. I’m not sure where or how this came to be but in the real business world that ratio is laughable. Most businesses sell for 2-3 years net revenue. I sold a website last year for a 7 year net revenue. Why 10 months? Because you don’t want to have to pay for a business what it is worth?
I think the main problem is sellers are putting their site out on display showing everyone exactly how your website makes money and exactly how much money you’re making. This is a problem because in the internet world the barrier to entry is almost non-existent. Any Joe Shmoe can buy a domain for $8, then go get a free WordPress template and be up and running in 10 minutes. Their thought process is since it is so easy why should they pay a 2 year multiple for a website. Inevitably most people that start these quick websites never achieve the traffic nor the money that the site for sell is doing but it just creates a problem where the market of buyers at a real business price is not there.
2. The fee structure is ridiculous. One of the problems I had with Flippa was the bookend fees they charged. They charge you to list your site for sale with all kinds of listing upgrades. You can easily end up spending $40-$50 to list your site for sale. I have no problem with them doing this. It is normal for businesses to charge listing fees.
On top of the listing fee is the purchase price fee. I can’t remember what that percentage is (I want to say 5%) but they cap you out at $499. That is where my site fell, the $499 cap. So I had to pay $40-$50 to list and then they wanted me to pay $499 once the deal had gone through. I agreed to this reluctantly because I knew Flippa could provide me with an audience. I just think you should make it one or the other. Charge me a listing fee, charge me a final sale fee, but don’t be greedy and charge me both.
3. If a deal falls through your out of luck and money. This one is the flaw that inspired this post. After I reached the agreement with the buyer he gave me the run around for a couple of weeks. During this time Flippa kept emailing me reminding me that I needed to pay the final transaction fee. I ignored the emails because I was still waiting to get paid for the site. It soon became apparent that the guy was not really going to put forth the money and so I moved on with my life.
Well I still kept getting emails from Flippa saying I needed to pay the final fee. I finally emailed them back saying the deal fell through and I never sold the site. I realized that I had taken the risk to pay the money to list the site for sale and since the deal fell through I was out the listing fee. I had no problem with that. But you can imagine my surprise when they emailed me and told me that even though the deal fell through I was still obligated to pay the final transaction fee (in this instance I had set it up to be split between me and the buyer) of $250.
So Flippa was demanding that I pay $250 for essentially nothing. I told them that it was ridiculous to ask me to pay the fee when I never received any money for the site but they kept demanding it and threatened to suspend my account. I told them to go ahead and suspend the account because I had and have no intention of ever paying the made up fee.
Congratulations Flippa! Not only did you lose one customer with your horrible fee policies, but I’m a guy with an audience and I will make sure they know about it too.
Flippa Alternative
If you want to find out where I go to find websites to buy click here.
So where do we go to find good buyers of websites. I have a few suggestions.
The first is a forum I recently found out about called Experienced People. I’m not sure why it’s named the way it is but it is a forum of people with money that like to buy and sell websites. It is a much more mature crowd than at Flippa.
The next Flippa alternative I would suggest when you are looking to sell a site is to contact your competitors. Remember, your competition is not your enemy. They can be some of your most valuable assets. If one of my competitors contacted me about buying their site I would be very interested. I have even tried to buy out my competition before.
Another option is to go directly to a business broker. I would only do this if your website is making over $3k a month. Their fees are high but they will also get you top dollar for your business.
The best option is to wait for someone to come to you. If you build an awesome website with great SEO rankings it won’t be long before people are contacting you about buying your site. This puts you in the driver seat. For example, on the site I sold for the 7 year multiple I had already received an offer for just over a 1 year multiple. The amount didn’t excite me so I passed. I fixed up the site more and got even higher rankings and then sold it for the 7 years of net revenue. That did excite me.

18 Responses
Good stuff to know. Sound like a buncha dbags.
Adam:
I’ve been selling sites on and off since 2007 and I had no idea Flippa “demanded” you pay a success fee if the buyer doesn’t follow through. Are you sure that’s true? I’ve never had a deal fall through, but I don’t like the idea that I could be on the hook for the success fee if a deal ever does fall through. That’s ridiculous.
I agree with your recommendation of the Experienced People forum. Clinton is a good guy and the people over there are definitely “experienced” Internet Marketers and online business people in general.
Travis
Many eBay sellers feel that eBay is terrible. We still find it a good place to sell because we are careful (clear policy and payment options), but the traffic is too good to ignore. Flippa seems like a terrible seller’s experience, regardless of traffic.
So I have to ask, what about using Flippa as a buyer? I haven’t purchased anything, but I wonder if they are just as bad from a buyer’s point of view.
Hi Adam,
Great post!
Thanks for mentioning my experienced-people.net forums. If you’re interested in how the name came about, it’s because I already owned the co.uk version of that name and had spent a lot of time building site buying/selling articles and guides on there similar to the excellent material you have on this site. My two are “sister sites” if you like. And I didn’t choose the original name either. It just happened to be one I had in my portfolio which already had a DMOZ entry at that time! I know, I know, as reasons go that’s pretty lame :)
About Flippa: you are perfectly correct, there’s a major flaw in the system in that any competitor can scupper your sale by making the highest bid and then refusing to pay. Non-paying bidders are endemic in Flippa and it’s a problem I predicted when Flippa moved over to a charging model that involved a “success fee” component.
Flippa has now done a deal with escrow.com which would give them the ability to track transactions that proceed to completion. The idea may have been so they know when an apparently successful sale results in a site changing hands. However, that only applies if the escrow.com transaction is initiated at Flippa. Many transactions are done directly at escrow.com, other escrow companies or with bypassing escrow services altogether. So Flippa has no way of knowing just how big the non-paying buyer problem is. It’s not fair that they expect/demand the success fee when the site has clearly not sold.
I agree with you that the better sites should skip Flippa altogether. You’ve offered some good alternatives. Brokers, competitors etc are worth approaching, as you’ve said. If the site’s a forum there are sometimes forum members who are interested. Vendors/merchants are often very keen to mop up the sites of successful affiliates. There are also the business listing sites such as businessesforsale, bizquest etc., many of which now have dedicated sections for internet businesses. Some members at my forum are keen buyers too as you’ve observed.
BTW, big congrats on your new baby girl Adam! I challenge you to make her first word “prosperly”. :-)
Christian, I would rather her first word be Daddy! :-)
Hey, Adam, I hadn’t heard the good news. A very hearty congratulations to you and the proud mum.
Hi Adam,
My firm SearchForecast has been buying & selling real website businesses for many years and we’ve always completed the transactions offline. Our sales run into 7 figure websites. We know the problem you are describing too well so thanks for sharing that in the public.
We represent Nasdaq companies and other large US adnetworks actively buying domains. Our clients buy 20-30 websites a month.
Many of our buyers and sellers meet at our very own Conference (sponsored by Google, AOL, eBay, etc). We find it ESSENTIAL to have the offline meeting of buyers and sellers to ensure there is trust and so the dummy bidders and non-payers are weeded out in the transaction process.
We began recently listing our online listing marketplace – http://marketplace.searchforecast.com as many AdSense Publishers from our AdSense Directory have been requesting we help them sell their websites.
I really like your point about the listing fee. We always waive the $29 listing fee) by allowing folks to use the promo code 2740835. We leave it up so to avoid scammers. We also delete lots of irrelevant listings. We also negotiate the 10% success fee down to a point that is a fixed price but work with our clients offline to help find a great buyer for them.
We also ONLY take the success fee if we sell the domain and the money clears. That is how boutique merchant/investment banks and Private Equity works as well. So we have this model which I think is much more sustainable.
I agree the WordPress start up webmaster is deluded to think his site is worth anything. As we have hundreds of clients and a management team that is very experienced, we find many of the folks selling domains are not knowledgable about the internet really or their websites. We give them a lot of advice NOT to sell their website and grow it before they max out the capital gain. This is the theme of our CRS Conference.
It would be great to talk with you so please ping me at my email address.
Thanks,
Marc
thanks, I had no Idea about the site experienced people.
But you are right about flippa. They simply just have too much junk for me. Then again i’m not in the business of buying and selling websites to say.
I recommend people keep an eye on what Marc Phillips is up to. It’s a new marketplace and focused just on websites monetised with Adsense, but it has the potential to follow an interesting trajectory.
I’m on his SearchForecast advisory board contributing (hopefully) to the next CRS conference. We’re also currently working on drafting some very interesting stuff that many marketplaces may find useful.
Adam, getting any sleep lately? :)
Useful stuff dude, will check out experienced people. The flipside of course of flippa is that you do occasionally get people that just need to get rid of a site – because its big these quick sale people do tend to get drawn to it (I brought one recently where they had lost their affiliate status but I had mine in tact so they wanted a quick sale and I benefited) – but on the whole it can be a timesink filtering out the crap on there.
Adam, This is not Jeff. I am stealing his computer while he is at lunch. I hope you can delete this but I just have to tell you how proud I am of you and how much I love you. You are so good and so smart. I am always blown away by how you are so focused on your own work and so willing to help others and of course having your baby girl on my birthday probably helped you in MY rankings. I love you, Mother
Yes you are right about Flippa. Most of the times the buyers do not pay and the seller still needs to pay the success fee.
I have also been a victim of the unfair flippa marketplace rules. Now I use Eflipp.com and websitebroker.com No success fees whatsoever to be worried about.
Owners at Flippa got very greedy and dont be surprised when they come up withs omething else to squeeze even more out of your pocket. I now use websitebroker.com and eflipp.com to avoid such ridiculous success fees.
I have pretty new website which I had started in the month of Sept which is presently at PR 1 do you suggest for me to wait before I sell it or list it now and wait for buyers. It has about 500 unique visitors presently to the website.
I always suggest selling your website when it is at its peak. That way you make the most money.
Wow, I had no idea that Flippa could be that shady. So did they end up suspending your account or trying to collect in anyway?
Thanks for sharing your experience on this. Not sure if it is typical. But, it is definitely something to consider. I will check out the other sites you mentioned.